I hope you’ll enjoy hearing from Ben and Meg Engstrom as much as I enjoyed talking with them. We discussed anxiety and rest, coming to grips with instability, and taking the truth of the scriptures deeper into our hearts.
Beth: Meg and Ben, thank you for sharing your dinnertime with me. Since we’ve been studying the book of Revelation together for a few months, I’m curious to hear if there were any assumptions or expectations that you brought to this part of the Bible that have been challenged or changed?
Meg: Over Christmas, right before we started this sermon series, we were at my parent’s house and there was that weird truck explosion in Nashville. I think there had already been some seeds of doubt and fear sown in my heart about Jesus coming back and what that would be like. I was actually laying in bed crying and really afraid about the end times. Ben asked me if I wanted to read the book of Revelation together, so we listened to the whole book on the way back from FL. That was the week before Dave and JonPaul started preaching on Revelation in worship.
Ben: I wanted to help and walk with Meg through those fears she was experiencing, and my framework wasn’t the best on all of it either. I had always seen it framed in the way of conspiracy theories and basically all the ways that Dave has been saying not to. It had never been broken down for me in a way that made Jesus central. It was all warnings about what we needed to watch out for when the end times were coming.
Meg: Yes, we have appreciated having a pastor walk us through it in such a humble and empathetic way.
Beth: I have felt the same way, so much calm and relief coming from what has, in other contexts, been a source of anxiety. It turns out, these scriptures have been an antidote to anxiety, and I’ve been so grateful for that. How would you say this different way of thinking has impacted the way you think about restoration in your daily life?
Meg: We were actually just talking about this last night. I was listening to something at work yesterday about Heaven being brought to earth. Imagine the best scenario you can imagine and then think of it ten times better--No one has seen or heard what God has in store for us. I really do daydream about heaven and the rest that comes to us with it. This has brought more rest, even in the midst of the pandemic.
Ben: It’s been a really stressful month, probably the most stressful since Meg and I have been married. I’ve been talking with a friend at our church about rest and restoration and finding contentment in the Lord. We have both been really encouraged by this book. We struggle with dissatisfaction with where we are. We’re still growing in our jobs and fields so we can struggle with dissatisfaction and discontentment. It’s amazing to think that one day, we will never feel discontent again.
Beth: That makes me think about how we’re being reminded that we were created for rest. It’s so amazing that we’ve been given the end of the story of our world, and it’s worship and rest. Has this perspective changed the way you think about instability in your life and in the world?
Ben: It’s so easy to be consumed and distracted by wondering what’s next for us. We’re just realizing that our wants are never stable. Even when we get these things that we’ve been focused on, we’re always going to want more. We’ve been reminding ourselves each night of the things that we’re thankful for. Recently, we’ve been thankful that God has led us to a church where we have good teaching. We realize that a lot of teaching is out there that is not Biblical. Maybe our wants aren’t stable, but God’s Word is.
Meg: We’re only two weeks into this month, and it has been the epitome of unstable. I’ve been thinking about trying to not only listen to Biblical truth, but also how I can choose to believe it instead of letting it go right through and not affect the way I think and live. I feel the need to take the truth seriously. I know that God’s Word and time with him are restful and that this is what I’m made for, but I sometimes still resist that in favor of doing things that are more “productive.” I had been challenged to re-read the book of Romans, so this week, I gave in to that. I’m starting grad school on Monday, and there are a million things I could be doing to get ready, but I stopped resisting and just rested in reading God’s Word. I want to do what I was made to do.
Ben: You pointed this out to me yesterday. I was extremely stressed with the gas situation. We both had a quarter tank and we both really needed gas. I was feeling like I didn’t jump on it soon enough . I was already stressed about buying a car and waiting to hear from a job. Meg pointed out that this was a good exercise for me because every single one of those things is out of my control. I’m realizing how much I am resisting guidance and rest in God’s arms.
Beth: There is a point in Revelation 10 when John takes in God’s word and says it is both bitter and sweet to him. Are there times when God’s word has been both bitter and sweet to you over the past few months?
Meg: I just finished a study with some girls on Titus and it was talking about being a wife and a mother. That was the hardest section to read because I have some preconceived ideas about what I want to be and what I want motherhood to look like. It’s sweet too because it goes on to point me back to the gospel and the joy that comes in obeying the Lord. There was a moment in worship when we were hearing about not obsessing on what is unstable when I was able to say to the Lord that I will submit to him in whatever way he wants me to be a mom.
Ben: On my side, it has been bittersweet to think about the part in II Corinthians 12 where Paul was given a thorn in his flesh. That hit me because I don’t like having weaknesses. I have been getting more stressed and I hate being stressed because I feel incapable, and I don't like relying on other people. This has made trusting God a lot harder, but it has been sweet because I’m learning that I don't have to be perfect.
Beth: It’s mind-blowing every single time I remember that Jesus triumphed by laying down his power to serve us. It’s just a whole upside down way of thinking; we aren’t used to celebrating weakness. When you think about the spread of the gospel and the future of the church, what are you excited about?
Meg: Maybe I feel like I'm missing that mark on this. I want to be honest. I don’t know if I'm really at the point where I'm super excited about this and that feels so sad. Sometimes I just want things to go back to normal, and I don’t know why I’m that way. I think I do continually desire for my friends to grow in the Lord, and I'm excited about having kids and raising them up to know Jesus and what great things He has done for them.
Beth: I can absolutely relate to the discomfort that comes from thinking about what is ahead for the church and what our role might be in that. Personally, I’ve been greedy for comfort and stability for myself and my household, and I’m going to need people from our church to come alongside me and encourage me to take the small steps. It helps to remember that the ordinary things like talking with my kids, praying for my neighbors, and having people over are part of that growth and progress. Still, it’s hard to start opening myself up, and I know I’m not going to be able to do it alone. I’m thankful to be surrounded by a community of people who are thinking about the progress of the gospel together.
Ben: I'm excited about seeing how God grows and develops us and other Christians and even those who haven't become Christians yet. It’s exciting to see how in a world that is full of uncertainty, God is raising up believers and sending us out. It will also be interesting to see how much the church grows as we experience persecutions.
Beth: This has been a hard year and it sounds like for you guys, a particularly hard month. Are there any of God’s promises from the Scriptures that have become more precious to you or that you have been able to cling to?
Meg: I go back to the verses in Titus about how God never lies. Everything he says in all of the Bible including the book of Revelation is true. I want to be insisting on the truth in my life instead of just hearing it and letting it pass me by. We have to insist on it for ourselves. Jesus says, he is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. What a relief that is! There is a beginning and an end and his name is Jesus. It’s not me and I’m so grateful.
Ben: A concept that has become more real to me is in Revelation 1, John says that this is the revelation of Jesus Christ. This brings me back to Hebrews where it says that long ago and in various ways, God has made himself known, but in these last days, we know him through Jesus. I keep thinking of the promise that because Jesus actually did something, life and suffering are not futile. Jesus lived, died, rose so that in the midst of struggles we didn't know we would face, he makes himself very real. He is a literal Savior.
Meg: It’s so true that if you don't actually believe that Jesus did something, you give way too much credit to the power of sin and evil. I can choose to sit in my pit of sorrow or to remember that he literally has already saved me.
Beth: Thank you for sharing what’s been going on with you guys. It’s encouraging for our church to hear about how the Holy Spirit has been leading and shaping you through the reading and preaching of God’s Word. I’m so glad for this chance to get to know you both better. Y’all are a sweet gift to our church family.